Curse

Rachel Crow · Dec 18, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

How about we just make the LS title register towards the Maxed Titles track accountwide and be done with it?

I like that idea, because every other idea seems crazy hard to add into the game anyway. Plus it's not like people do it the right way by playing the game and not dying, they just go to that stupid dwarf dungeon or HFFF anyway.

SleetDragon · Dec 18, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

/not signed

Listen I can understand not wanting to remake a character to gain a premier title but, I have a friend and he has litterally made every character on his account legendary survivor and I can't recount the many times I've heard him vent his anger whenever he dies between completeing the title because he's wasted all his money on armor for the character all the skills and didnt get title its not an easy title and shouldnt be flaunted around. I'm sorry if you died in pre title days. But my friend who has done all this is 31 Months old all the way back to Beta, and I can honestly tell you he of all people would never want this travesty to past no matter which way they decide to do it.
It sounds just like an easy way out I'm sorry I don't agree with this especially since my friend had to work so hard for all of his.

MithranArkanere · Dec 18, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

You you think that if you suffer, other should suffer, instead of removing the suffer so other do not have to suffer?

Yeah... very logic. PRECISELY because it was annoying for him, it should be changed so other do not have to delete characters. Mayre retry forever and ever, and neer getting it, but retry without deletion.

TaCktiX · Dec 18, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

So because he endured all manner of self-inflicted pain and suffering we should be perfectly at home with doing it as well? Dang, I thought Masochism was just a skill from Eye of the North, I suppose it's supposed to be my play style as well.

SleetDragon · Dec 18, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Ya act like its gonna kill you to miss "ONE" title.
Perhaps you don't know the meaning of suffering, if this is suffering to you maybe you need to play some other "GAME" that doesnt cause so much suffering. Legendary Survivor is not in my opinion worth my paitence of getting it, However the ones who took the time to get it shouldnt have other people who just want another title to add to their HoM impede what they have worked for, just so you can add another stupid little statue.
I'd also like to add that you're gonna "suffer" either way no matter who wins the argument cause Anet is not going to change it.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 18, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

But my friend who has done all this is 31 Months old all the way back to Beta, and I can honestly tell you he of all people would never want this travesty to past no matter which way they decide to do it.

Then let him post and speak his piece. Hell, what we're suggesting here would make it the case that he wouldn't have to start over all those times, possibly saying that he would like this to be implemented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

However the ones who took the time to get it shouldn't have other people who just want another title to add to their HoM impede what they have worked for, just so you can add another stupid little statue.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Me getting the title on a character that has previously died takes away from their skill or accomplishment?

Peter Panic · Dec 18, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

interesting idea, but my only problem is that the higher level characters that u could reset will already have access to easy ways of xp (trolls, dwarf dungeon, HFFF spot, etc) so it would make it that much easier.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 18, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Panic

interesting idea, but my only problem is that the higher level characters that u could reset will already have access to easy ways of xp (trolls, dwarf dungeon, HFFF spot, etc) so it would make it that much easier.

Considering how levels 10s that have EotN can access the Brawling dungeon, an infamous way of getting LS easily, "that much easier" is not really that much easier. Besides, we're mostly talking about making the changes for characters that never had a chance at the title (meaning they were made before LS even came out) or want to go for the title at a later time.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Just about everyone who's complaining to get it changed that had made a character before it was released. There's no way to really know this, but if I knew about a title like this when I first made my Ranger, I would have put forth an honest effort to not die, and I probably would have been willing to sacrifice my character until I had gotten it.

Almost a couple years down the line, and I already have 11 titles maxed. Sorry, I'm not deleting 11 titles to shoot for 1.

--

Also, another thing to throw out there, since I still don't understand people's viewpoints on this. If the title is changed so that I still have to not die for how ever much EXP as the title currently asks, how does that cheapen out the title?

I'll assume beforehand that if you make the argument of starting at level 1 vs. level 20, you're saying that if I can survive to level 10, I may as well have already earned the title, given the existence of all of the cheapening tactics that many have already listed in this thread.

TaCktiX · Dec 18, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Getting Survivor is a piece of cake, even running through the normal story. As long as you don't try to hench through impossible situations, or roll with PUGs thinking that Flare is the best thing for a Warrior to have, you'll get the title. Staying the course for the remaining 90% of the XP is the hard part, and the 1-to-20 Survivor you just got is at near even stakes, if not BETTER than your main character who's been everywhere and done most everything. The new Survivor has more quest rewards, more missions, more skill caps, more chances to get cheap and easy experience. The main character with 7 million experience, Legendary Skill Hunter, Legendary Guardian, and Tyrian Vanquisher? Yeah, all those cheap options are GONE. So getting Legendary Survivor is HARDER as BEFORE ARGUED AND IGNORED for a long-since Level 20 than a brand-new one.

I still refuse to understand why the chief lines of argument against are these pathetic excuses:
- I rerolled, sometimes more than once, and hey, I managed to get it, AND recoup my titles too! Good job, you have no life and/or no attachment to your characters
- It's not been done before, why now? Um...extra storage hadn't been done before, increased gold rewards for vanquishing hadn't been done before, a Hard Mode period hadn't been done before...the list goes on
- You just want another title. A title that people will actually see. A lot of people are like me, and have a main character that comprises half of their total account time, if not more. The half-time for ALL OTHER CHARACTERS will leave little time for the character who HAS gotten Legendary Survivor to get seen and appreciated.

And the reasons that all the /unsigneds are ignoring:
- Attachment to their main character.
- They never had a chance to get the title, because the character is older than Factions.
- They were not aware of the title until well after their main/first character had bitten the dust a few times.
- Limited amount of time available to them, so starting over is not an option.

MithranArkanere · Dec 18, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

More importantly.

4 of my 10 characters are Prophecies born.

In Prophecies, they only tell you in those blue boxes that you can die with no conseqences, but later youll get penalization.
That was a long time ago of course.

Later on, they tell you that there were really consequences for dying there... oh! Now you can't access Survivor.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 18, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

More importantly.

4 of my 10 characters are Prophecies born.

In Prophecies, they only tell you in those blue boxes that you can die with no conseqences, but later youll get penalization.
That was a long time ago of course.

Later on, they tell you that there were really consequences for dying there... oh! Now you can't access Survivor.

Actually, they don't even say that much. I don't remember ever being told anything along the lines of me being docked something for dying in pre-Searing, nor do they say at any time later in post-Searing that you missed out on Survivor. The only way you could figure it out is to get so far in the title track, realize it was there, forget about it later, and come back to find it vanished because you died.

Their messages to us, if at all, are extremely subtle.

Spirit_Axery · Dec 19, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

/signed

Reason: Currently, it's impossible to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor on the same character. This should not be the state of affairs.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 19, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit_Axery

/signed

Reason: Currently, it's impossible to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor on the same character. This should not be the state of affairs.

Actually, that's purposeful. If one could earn LDoA and LS on the same character, Tyrians would have one more alternative to getting the God title than Canthans or Elonians unless ANet would change it to a post-Searing attainable title. But then, it's original purpose would be shot.

SleetDragon · Dec 19, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Then let him post and speak his piece. Hell, what we're suggesting here would make it the case that he wouldn't have to start over all those times, possibly saying that he would like this to be implemented.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Me getting the title on a character that has previously died takes away from their skill or accomplishment?

I guess the reason continues to escape you. My friend as smart as he is doesn't bother entering the forums and I don't usually borrow my friends to make an excuse but, I've remembered running him through a couple areas so its a personal experience from someone who really worked for the title. What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title. If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again. It doesn't make sense to allow a title to be redundant, so therefor for the simple fact that the title literally won't mean what it states or what it will mean to other players I still remain unsigned

TaCktiX · Dec 19, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

You still have to survive for 1,337,500 sequential XP. Just because it doesn't start at Level 1 does not cheapen the title in any way at all. It's not like people will suddenly be able to doubleaggro, solo DoA with a whammo, or charge without monks into a mob and get the title. It's STILL as hard as it always has been, and it's not cheapened in any way.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 19, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title.

If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again.

1. If I survive the 1,337,500 experience without dying on a character that has already died before I earn that much experience, does that not make me a Survivor? After all, I lasted as long as I would need initially for the title.

And if that's not right, then shouldn't people who have LS need to keep surviving? I mean, if they die, they're not really "survivors" anymore, are they?

2. Perhaps not in this thread or any recent post, but I've stated before that I see LDoA as a joke for a title the way it's set up. The way they put it into the game doesn't even make it fair for them to rework LS in any way so that it could be put on the same character as LDoA.

So, we've said before: keep them exclusive. Or, as I would suggest, change LDoA to something attainable in post-Searing. That, of course, ruins the original meaning of LDoA.

pumpkin pie · Dec 19, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

I guess the reason continues to escape you. My friend as smart as he is doesn't bother entering the forums and I don't usually borrow my friends to make an excuse but, I've remembered running him through a couple areas so its a personal experience from someone who really worked for the title. What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title. If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again. It doesn't make sense to allow a title to be redundant, so therefor for the simple fact that the title literally won't mean what it states or what it will mean to other players I still remain unsigned

on contrary to the bold part you cannot let people have a chance at LDoA again if survivor title is reset because in the first place:

LDoA should be invalid if your character is not a survivor and if it ever exit Pre-Sears, if the "logic" of a character had die will not be able to get survivor apply, then the same should be applicable to LDoA, since if it dies, it can't protect pre sear Ascalon no more, and if it leaves it Abandon Pre-Sear Ascalon and hence can no longer be a defender for Pre-Sear Ascalon.

Therefore in the situation that is now, LDoA have countless death counts and some had abandon Pre-Sear Ascalon, thus Survivor title should logically be re-set and is counted between death and not 0 death from creation of character.

Shayne Hawke · Dec 19, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

To throw another angle into this heated debate, I'm going to expose another recent topic. I choose you, Deadthread!

Phoenix Tears recently made a thread on the topic of changing LS and LDoA. If you'd look at it, you'll noticed he basically got raped and flamed to all ends. I'll boil down the basic idea:

- LDoA needed changed to a post-Searing title which would involve defending Ascalon.
- LS needed changed to accommodate players who were around before it came out.

My basic response was agreement, but saying that LDoA shouldn't even be a title if it wasn't pre-Searing attained and that I supported the LS revision found here. In fact, as far as I know, the only way to fairly adjust both titles to make them attainable on the same character is to do just about that: LDoA needs to be attainable in post-Searing, and LS could just go along with the method discussed by the OP.

You don't have to make LDoA and LS mutually exclusive. You just have to make them fair - one or both for everyone.

cellardweller · Dec 19, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

To me the better solution is to lose survivor if you ever die and lose LDoA if you ever leave pre-searing.

No disparatity between old or new characters and irrespective of campaign origin. Problem solved.

SleetDragon · Dec 19, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

1. If I survive the 1,337,500 experience without dying on a character that has already died before I earn that much experience, does that not make me a Survivor? After all, I lasted as long as I would need initially for the title.

And if that's not right, then shouldn't people who have LS need to keep surviving? I mean, if they die, they're not really "survivors" anymore, are they?

2. Perhaps not in this thread or any recent post, but I've stated before that I see LDoA as a joke for a title the way it's set up. The way they put it into the game doesn't even make it fair for them to rework LS in any way so that it could be put on the same character as LDoA.

So, we've said before: keep them exclusive. Or, as I would suggest, change LDoA to something attainable in post-Searing. That, of course, ruins the original meaning of LDoA.

Well I see your point Shayne Hawkeye, I understand you see it as get 1,337,550 Exp then be done, but lets take a step back, do the players who wasted their time and money to remake their players to get the title get reimbursed? They earned the title the way I believe Anet intended for them to get it. So to allow other players to get a second chance without remaking now thats just not plain fair. I can understand that along with this implication some sort of reimbursment would be fair to the other players that had already recieved the title the original way? If that condition can be met I wouldnt be as impartial to say I don't like it.

I also agree with your second statement I have never particularly cared for either LS or LDoA personally.(Kinda suprised I'm so fiery in the debate about it)Both titles contradict themselves, and maybe instead of LDoA being drug into post searing perhaps we do the opposite with the other campaigns? Create a post Jade Wind for Cantha, and a Turai's Rule for Nightfall or something more creative. Just throwing it out there.